Odds of hands, and the usual dry side pot argument
Last night was great times. Attendees at Pub Poker included Mike, Brad, Ben, Girard, myself, and an old friend Matt and his friend Damian. Lots of catching up occurred, some drinking, and some poker.
I wore my new Poker Stars shirt, but resisted doing my full on joke mode. I had Advanced HoldEm in my car, and my plan was to sit down at my first table with my shirt, and my HoldEm book, get my first two cards, look at them, pick up the book, look up starting hands, then look at the table and go "are you guys a tight or loose table?"
I thought it was funny, but I didn't think anyone else at the table would have thought so, so I decided against it.
My big losses for the night went as follows.
My set loses to a rivered gut shot straight who put all of his money in on the flop.
My AJ loses to J4 when he puts all of his money in on a flop of J83, and of course a turn 4 gives him two pair.
My A10 is pwned by KQ. Not that bad, but it was my finisher, so I thought I'd mention it.
I am getting a bit downtrodden on pub poker because, well, I am unlucky, and even getting my money in as the favorite every time is nice and all, but if you keep getting sucked out on to get knocked out, its irrelevant. This is another one of those reasons why I like Limit so much better. Losing like 5 BB is nowhere near as bad as losing my entire stack on a suck out.
Ah well.
There's a guy that plays at Pub Poker that we are sure we know each other, but we couldn't remember from where. Last night we figured out that he used to come to my store when it was still open. He was the victim of my latest tirade about betting into a dry side pot.
He is in the big blind. Blinds are 400-800. Early position limper calls, next guy goes all in for 4000 or so. Late position guy calls the all in, putting HIM all in (for only like 2400). Big Blind calls. Early position limper calls.
Flop comes 457 rainbow. There are two all in pots, and no side pot for the two people left with stacks. The Big Blind bets 2000, and the early position player folds. The big blind then turns over Q6 for an open ended straight draw.
Now, first of all, I'm pretty sure I don't call with Q6 in that position, even with money in the pot. I am pretty sure it was offsuit too, but honestly, I don't remember. Second, I can not for the life of me understand why he bets there. He is drawing to the near nuts, but right now he has nothing, so by thinning the players, he is improving the odds that one of the all ins doubles up. His reason when we started talking about it was that he "doesn't understand the whole unspoken rule of checking it down, and he wanted to get more money out of the other guy."
Look, if you know the check it down "unspoken rule," then you should know that you won't get any more money out of the other guy! If you bet, he will either expect you to have a good hand and fold, or will have you beat and will come over the top of you. He's not going to 'call you down' on a draw with two all ins in the main pot and a totally dry side pot.
His next reason when I shot down that one was that "I had over half of my chips in the pot and I wanted to thin the field a bit to make my odds better."
Perhaps this is logical, but it begs the question as to why he called half his chips with Q6 to begin with, with two all in's ahead of him. At what point do you not expect your Q6 to be dominated by at least one of the other three players in this monster pot? So it's a case of a bad play to start with leading to a (self) justified bad play afterwards.
*shrug* I just don't get it.
I wore my new Poker Stars shirt, but resisted doing my full on joke mode. I had Advanced HoldEm in my car, and my plan was to sit down at my first table with my shirt, and my HoldEm book, get my first two cards, look at them, pick up the book, look up starting hands, then look at the table and go "are you guys a tight or loose table?"
I thought it was funny, but I didn't think anyone else at the table would have thought so, so I decided against it.
My big losses for the night went as follows.
My set loses to a rivered gut shot straight who put all of his money in on the flop.
My AJ loses to J4 when he puts all of his money in on a flop of J83, and of course a turn 4 gives him two pair.
My A10 is pwned by KQ. Not that bad, but it was my finisher, so I thought I'd mention it.
I am getting a bit downtrodden on pub poker because, well, I am unlucky, and even getting my money in as the favorite every time is nice and all, but if you keep getting sucked out on to get knocked out, its irrelevant. This is another one of those reasons why I like Limit so much better. Losing like 5 BB is nowhere near as bad as losing my entire stack on a suck out.
Ah well.
There's a guy that plays at Pub Poker that we are sure we know each other, but we couldn't remember from where. Last night we figured out that he used to come to my store when it was still open. He was the victim of my latest tirade about betting into a dry side pot.
He is in the big blind. Blinds are 400-800. Early position limper calls, next guy goes all in for 4000 or so. Late position guy calls the all in, putting HIM all in (for only like 2400). Big Blind calls. Early position limper calls.
Flop comes 457 rainbow. There are two all in pots, and no side pot for the two people left with stacks. The Big Blind bets 2000, and the early position player folds. The big blind then turns over Q6 for an open ended straight draw.
Now, first of all, I'm pretty sure I don't call with Q6 in that position, even with money in the pot. I am pretty sure it was offsuit too, but honestly, I don't remember. Second, I can not for the life of me understand why he bets there. He is drawing to the near nuts, but right now he has nothing, so by thinning the players, he is improving the odds that one of the all ins doubles up. His reason when we started talking about it was that he "doesn't understand the whole unspoken rule of checking it down, and he wanted to get more money out of the other guy."
Look, if you know the check it down "unspoken rule," then you should know that you won't get any more money out of the other guy! If you bet, he will either expect you to have a good hand and fold, or will have you beat and will come over the top of you. He's not going to 'call you down' on a draw with two all ins in the main pot and a totally dry side pot.
His next reason when I shot down that one was that "I had over half of my chips in the pot and I wanted to thin the field a bit to make my odds better."
Perhaps this is logical, but it begs the question as to why he called half his chips with Q6 to begin with, with two all in's ahead of him. At what point do you not expect your Q6 to be dominated by at least one of the other three players in this monster pot? So it's a case of a bad play to start with leading to a (self) justified bad play afterwards.
*shrug* I just don't get it.
posted by Ray | 7:54 AM
4 Comments:
Wow, I guess what we should both be learning about poker right now is that you never want to be a favorite going to the flop because the long-shot hands always catch. It's a bit of an adjustment to my play style, but I'll adapt. Derp de durr, let's go all in drawing to my inside straight!
what i wasnt at pub poker last night ? loser !
It was amazing last night. It really solidified for me why my brain hates No Limit so badly, because one bad river can just completely wipe you out. I am much better suited to the slow grind of limit games.
this is why rocks like to play no limit, because it's better strategy for going all in, etc.
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